Speaker 1: I love working with kindergartners. Um, and you know, I did like coach pitch. Teeball baseball their first time, they're playing a game at chess. Um, at my church, I've ran the kindergarten room on and off for 20 years. I love that age group and I'm gonna make this relevant. I promise you. Okay. So this is what I want you to imagine. How many of you [00:00:30] already have a five year old or, or how many of you were at one time? Five years old. right. So when you're teaching them how to play baseball, here's us simple sequence, ground balls coming at you, you straddle. Okay. And so most of the kids, they, that have 'em straddle, you put your butt down. Most of the kids giggle at that ha he said the word butt. Ha ha ha, funny, funny, whatever, you know, get some cracking up, but butt down then glove on the bottom [00:01:00] alligator and then your feet surfer, skateboard, and then to throw the ball it's catapult or it's elephant trunk. Speaker 1: Okay. So why am I sharing that with you? And here's the bottom line? Are we communicating in a manner that maximizes the likelihood of behavior change? That's what we're after. Are we communicating in a manner that maximizes the likelihood of [00:01:30] behavior change? So I'm gonna back up a slide again and then even within our process, are there any areas where there's consistently some breakdown? So in fielding a ground ball with children, it's that second step, they don't put their butt down, they bend it their waste. So that's the most common issue. And just like that's true for a five year old fielding the ground ball. The same thing is true with helping [00:02:00] our students move through the financing process, us and the key area where we're not doing the best job is in framing their perspective. We do a good job on task level. Here's what you gotta do, but are we framing their mindset? Speaker 1: And so really that's what a lot of we're gonna talk about here in this session is about it. It's about framing their [00:02:30] mindset. So let me ask you a question. Where does education rank in terms of lifetime expenditures? I should have asked that before I opened up the slide but where does it rank now? Where does it rank for you, for your families? You know, and for most of us it's number two or number three for most of us, you know? So usually home is number one. Once somebody makes the plunge and they, they, they purchase a home that jumps to the top of the list, but [00:03:00] the next biggies are automobile in education. Sometimes it's education, more expenses, sometimes it's automobile. And once in a while, a life event, like a wedding sneaks in there. Okay. So how many of you got cash to pay for these things? Speaker 1: How many of you buy your home outright? No mortgage, all cash. How many of you, when you buy an automobile, buy it all cash. [00:03:30] What about education? So is education expensive? What do you think? How many of you think education's expensive? I sure think it is , you know, with, with, with my six figures of plus loan debt, it's expensive. OK. It's expensive, you know? Um, but what about a lack of education [00:04:00] is a lack of education, expensive. Do you ask your perspective students to do you ask their influencers, their buying committees, their family members, their significant others. Are you asking them that? Speaker 1: So education is expensive. Of course it is, you know, but, but lack of education [00:04:30] costs more in terms of wages and employment gaps over time. And I think most of us are pretty good at sending people to the, you know, you know, bureau of labor and statistics or on net or whatever other, you know, credible compliant sites, you know, you're sending folks to, or, or encouraging them to research. But again yet your perspective students and their family members thinking about these things, give them context. [00:05:00] Okay. Who's deserving of a quality education. Let's assume there was no financing. Speaker 1: If there was no financing then who would get well it, and is that right? It, you know, are, are just people that come from, you know, more economic means or they're the academically elite, [00:05:30] are those the only ones deserving of a quality education? What about the socioeconomically disadvantaged? What about some of those, you know, family members or friends of family that kicked me outta my bed growing up were they less deserving? I had to sleep with my brothers were they less deserving? What about my children? You know, I, I have a fairly comfortable lifestyle yet. [00:06:00] I have a ton of plus loan debt. Am I that different than most of the rest of people out there? I don't think so. So are my children deserving of a quality education? What about yours? Are they deserving of a quality education? Speaker 1: Are you asking your prospects that are you deserving of a quality education? Do your children deserve a quality education? Sometimes people find that [00:06:30] question offensive and it stings and they don't like that question. Good. You know, so who is deserving of a quality education? And are you asking that of your perspective students and of their buying committees? And I'm encouraging you to ask 'em that, and again, this is going at framing, their perspective, [00:07:00] um, this is a whole old training in and of itself. So I'm not gonna unpack this one that deeply, other than to say, I want you to think about the last argument or fight that you had with somebody, especially if it's somebody very close to you. What was the situation? Speaker 1: You know, so I'll give you a simple one. I'll give you a parenting one, you know, with me. So, you know, [00:07:30] one of mine is that we're my wife and I were kind of empty nesters. Now, you know, my, my youngest one has three semesters left at Ohio state. My middle child moved out. Um, you know, about a year ago, he lives in Wicker park, Chicago. Now the you cool part, although he does come home and spend one night a week here and he does, you know, eat a lot of my food still and steal some of my clothes, you know, but, um, you know, and then my oldest daughter, um, her and her boyfriend own a home about [00:08:00] a half hour away from us. And, um, you know, so that that's, that's, that's our circumstance. So a recent conflict I had was that I was, I I'm paying for my kids' car insurance. Speaker 1: that's a conflict. Okay. So I got a 29, 25 and 21 year old and I have 'em all on, on my policy. My wife was not raised that way. She, her maiden [00:08:30] name was Brunick German family, you know, very black and white, very task master. And, um, and her parents didn't do what she considers what I do as enabling and creating dependency with my kids. So we have a very different view, one, um, is it right or wrong to pay for your adult children's car insurance and regardless what your belief is on that one? That's what we were fighting about. Okay. Well, [00:09:00] here's our relational history. Our relational history is that I typically want to provide, you know, I'm the man, you know, I wanna provide and I was fortunate and I, where my dad was really cool about things like that. So I got his hand me down used car, you know, when I was growing up, that's what I was raised with, you know, where, um, my wife had to work for everything she had [00:09:30] and, and do it on her own. Speaker 1: So we have this relational history that whenever I'm doing something and providing for my children, that, and, and my wife and I, it's a point of clash. And if you look at our families of origins, that's where it stems from. And it stems from how we were raised differently. And if you really wanna get, um, you know, drilled down on this type of, of stuff, she was raised in a household of progressive discipline [00:10:00] and consequences. And I was raised in a household of every time, something doesn't go the way you want it, you unpack it. And you look for the teachable moment, you know? So, so she was kind of like the cop growing up and I kind of the softer one, you know, and, and, and she didn't like playing that role. I actually did like playing my role. she didn't like playing hers anyway. Speaker 1: Why am I sharing this with you? Okay. The reason I'm sharing this with you is I want [00:10:30] you to think about what conflict, our perspective students are going through when they're coming school. And when they're trying to onboard, what is their situation? What's their relational history. When it comes to money in financing, what's their relational history. When it comes to the word loan, what's their family of origin. Like what's their trust level with their parents and inside their own household. [00:11:00] You know, I've shared a little bit about my own personal stuff. My oldest daughter, when she was outta high school, I wouldn't sign off on her funding for school. Even though I work in education, I massively believe in it, you know, constantly investing in it for myself. But she was also the kid that at age 14, ran my neighbor's mailbox over with my car and it wreaked to herb , you know? So she was that kid. [00:11:30] So she blew trust. Now a couple years later, I sign off on anything she wants, but she had blown trust where my youngest two, I signed off on anything they wanted whenever they wanted. And I trusted them and they never gave me reason not to, you know, but what about our students? What's their history. Speaker 1: Why is a student going underground when it's time for, for them to get a cosigner? [00:12:00] Why are they disappearing on us? Why are we chasing the hell out of them and, you know, and spending all this time. Okay. So what I am proposing here and, and what I've seen work, and, and, and this is a fact fact, not a feeling fact. This is what the data says is that if you invest the time in framing their perspectives and having these kinds of conversations upfront, it's [00:12:30] gonna reduce the chase. It's gonna compress the timeframe between point a application and completing the finance. Speaker 1: So, um, this whole situation, relational history, family origin, that's a whole training in and of itself. And it relates to many different areas of the student's journey. Um, and, um, you know, maybe in a future session will really unpack that one. All right. But education's expensive. So how does [00:13:00] somebody finance a big ticket item? How do you finance a big ticket item? How do you finance your home? How do you finance an automobile? You know, the average length of a car loan used to only be 24 months. What is it today? 60 months seen 72 months getting promoted. Now I was just looking at a car for my wife. We gave my daughter, oh, we gave, okay, here is back to my family. We gave my youngest [00:13:30] daughter, my wife's car. So now she needed a new car, but she wanted almost exactly what she already had. You know, I would've gotten her, whatever she wants. So I was on like Carvana and, and car gurus and all that. They're financing that they immediately quote a 72 months is what they're. Why? Because the ticket price has gotten higher. How can we make it affordable? How can we make things affordable? Speaker 1: So is education expensive yet? It is. It's [00:14:00] a big ticket item. Okay. Is it only for the wealthy? I think it's for everyone. I think most of us would agree that it's for everyone. Maybe all of us would agree that it's for everyone. Okay. But it's expensive. So if we are going to get a quality post-secondary education, most of us we'll have to borrow. We will have to borrow. [00:14:30] So why are loans bad? What's wrong with loans? Why are they bad? Why is debt bad? Cause you gotta pay interest on it. Right. Even though right now loans, student loans are like one of the all time lows, you know, I'm, I'm paying anywhere from five and for new plus loans to over 7% for some of the old ones, my kids are paying two and change to 3% [00:15:00] for their Stafford loans. Historically, those are really low interest rate loans. Where else can you go take other people's money invested in developing your skills and credentials to grow your lifetime income? Where else can you do that? Speaker 1: So why are loans bad? Yeah. Interest. There's a monthly payment. You're indentured. It packs your credit score. And the bottom line is why are loans bad? It's cuz you gotta pay [00:15:30] him back. Right? It it's really that simple. Duh, you gotta pay him back. So most debt's bad. Most debt hurts your future wealth. Okay. But what about a mortgage? What about a business loan? What about a student? What is their purpose? Is it [00:16:00] to hurt your future wealth or is it to grow it? What do you think? What do you think our students think? What do you think our prospects think? What do you think their family members think when it comes to these kinds of things? Speaker 1: So most debt is bad, but good debt. Is there really such a thing? Is there such a thing as good debt? [00:16:30] You know, I know when I was getting my MBA and we were studying risk and net present value and things of that nature, you know? Yeah. There are a lot of times where even for businesses, having some debt from a risk portfolio was the smart thing to do. Okay. But what about as an individual? What about as a consumer? What is, what about somebody that's gonna be a lifetime earner, you know? So is there such a good thing as, as [00:17:00] good debt there absolutely is. And what's its impact on your future wealth? Speaker 1: Does it grow your future wealth and do your prospects and their buying committees? Get this. If you were to ask 'em the question, is debt good or bad? How would they answer? [00:17:30] How would you answer? you know, it depends is kind of the right answer right. But it could be bad, right? Could be good. Are student loans good or bad? What do you think they're neutral until you take 'em out, then they're not neutral anymore. Then you either dug a hole and you owe and you hurt your future wealth [00:18:00] and maybe even blue future chances of getting an education. How many you hate it when you've got a student and they're in the default and was like, Ugh, you know, now there's a lot of default repair stuff out there, which is kind of cool, you know? And that there's been a lot of progress in that area. But, uh, man, that's such a downer, you know, so a student loan's neutral until you take it out and then it's either good or bad, you know, and obviously finish what you start, go to work or in a living in [00:18:30] your field. Ideally, it's something you're passionate about and you grow your future wealth. Speaker 1: And I know this stuff might be very obvious, but are we sharing this with our perspective students, are we sharing this with their families? Are we framing their perspective? You know, my experiences is that we, we don't really even like to talk a lot about this subject [00:19:00] and we wanna get away from it as quickly as we can, you know, and we hope they'll go figure it all out, you know? And, and, and, and we don't fight the good fight and this is the good fight, so good debt grows, your grows it. Okay. So here's the bottom line. This is the visual I want you to have. I want you to imagine you're taking your students and you're taking their family members up to 40,000 feet. And you're looking down [00:19:30] at their family tree, one generation to the next generation, to the next generation. And you're helping 'em understand the long term ramifications of investing in and developing in demand skills that they're passionate about. Speaker 1: And you're reframing their perspective when it comes to good of versus bad debt. [00:20:00] And here's ultimately what you want. You want their belief to be. You wanna make sure that after you're done with your conversations with them, that they believe that it's a have to that quality education is a have to and financing that quality education is a have to, they have to do it for their sake, for their family's sake for their family tree's sake. [00:20:30] And that because of your reframing, it becomes a want to, and now they want to do it cuz they understand it in a different way. Speaker 1: That's the ultimate goal. And now I can't remember my FAFSA username. Oh, I gotta reset it. Oh, I got selected for verification. Oh, I filled this one out. I [00:21:00] didn't dot that eye correctly. I didn't cross that T correctly. What a pain in the butt? How many of you completed finding aid documents yourself? Is it fun? Ugh. , that's how I feel about it. Ugh, but it's gotta get done and I need energy and I need resolve and I need a want to, to get it done. It can't just be a chore and a pain in the butt, but [00:21:30] for most of us and for most of our students, that's exactly what it is. Speaker 1: So help. 'em make it a, have to make 'em understand that it's a have to, and, and that it becomes a want to form. All right. So that is really, um, the foundational stuff that I wanted to put out there. And, and, and now I, I just, I wanna open up talking [00:22:00] about how somebody pays to school. What are some of the things that you're doing and what are some of the challenges that you're having when it comes to, you know, working with your students, where are you even sharing the financing of an education? Where in the process are you sharing cost of your program? Where in the process are you sharing how, you know, our students are [00:22:30] able to do this? Where are you sharing? Are you sharing it up front? Speaker 1: Are you sharing it as part of the interview? Are you doing the whole full blown interview? And then at the very end, it's the last thing you're sharing? You know, um, when I have observed, um, different schools, processes, different admission processes, um, what I've often [00:23:00] seen is that we share tuition and cost right before we close right before we go for the application. That's often where I see it shared, and that's not ideal because as soon as we get into sharing tuition and cost and the whole funding process, emotionally, that person starts to crash. They're on their way down now. [00:23:30] And you don't wanna close on the way down. You wanna close on the way up. Okay. So I have a lot of, um, strong opinions based on data on the flow of an interview. And, um, there are definitely just like teaching that five year old, how to field a ground ball. Speaker 1: The same thing is true in the flow of an interview. There's [00:24:00] a certain order to it. That's gonna be most likely lead to the behavior change that we're looking for. And what I will say about when you share financing is after you have shared that you have to have steps in your process that get the student coming back up. So if it's a brick and mortar campus tour, that's ideal. When I was at admissions rep, [00:24:30] the order was real simple. We told them what we were gonna tell 'em we, we set the stage for the interview. We gave them high level information. We were giving information. The reason for that was we were gaining credibility. And because we were giving information, it made it easy to receive information. The next step after that was the in depth needs analysis, which in my opinion, is the most single most important part of the whole process. Speaker 1: That's where you're [00:25:00] diagnosing and you're asking all your leading questions. Okay. And in that stage, make sure you're summarizing what they've shared with you. So I see that step get skipped a lot. I see us ask a lot of great information, but I don't see us summarize it, feed it back to them and have them, you know, agree and give it back. Okay. So, so we're doing our needs analysis next. We're going long term and we're about the career field itself [00:25:30] and why it's a great fit for them and why they're a great fit for, for it. And so now we know where they are, we've got their commitment to yep. That's the right career field for 'em now we're selling our school and the benefits of what we do and we're connecting the dots. So our hands on, you know, our, our, our, you know, instructors who work in their fields of studies, smaller classes, you know, um, you know, all of our career services, our placement or all that, [00:26:00] you know, we're, we're connecting the dots. Speaker 1: Okay. We have trial closes built in along those ways. And then we're sharing our tuition and our costs and our financing. And so we've built, 'em up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, then we're sharing the tuition they're coming down. And then if it's brick and mortar, that's when we to 'em and we show 'em around and now they're all pumped. And now they're all excited. [00:26:30] You know, my experience and especially with passion programs is that we, we tour like almost right away, you know, and, and, and because that's fun and that's one of the easier parts and the, and the communication is really cool. But in terms of that student digesting things, we got 'em on an emotional high. Then we bring 'em back to our office and it's downhill from there. So what I wanna encourage you to do is insert [00:27:00] your tour, whether it's a visual virtual tour, you know, over a phone or zoom, or whether it's an in person, brick and mortar tour inserted after you are talking about money and financing and then close and then close when they're on their way back up. So that's also a really key piece and there is an order [00:27:30] and the order makes a difference.