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Got it.

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Tash Uray: You're not a Cleveland Indian sense, so that they, you know

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Mark Sullivan: they played well no tigers, so that does not break my heart

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Mark Sullivan: as I look around the room of people who are Indians. Fans are guardians fans now, Probably

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Mhm?

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Tash Uray: So tosh. How is the weather out in Are you still out in Bc. Right now. No, no, I'm I'm. Um. I moved to Sugar Grove and i'm in Sugar Grove, Illinois right now, really Okay,

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Tash Uray: And and I had no idea that moving ten miles west of where I used to live, which was right off route fifty-nine are you familiar with that area, you know. Okay, So I'm: Um. I just moved.

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Tash Uray: I was on one side of Aurora. I moved to the other side. And what a difference? Yeah,

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Tash Uray: So i'm enjoying that.

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Mark Sullivan: Are Are you? In a pretty suburban area where you are.

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Mark Sullivan: We're we're we're, we're all we're we're we're we're we're we're we're all we're we're, we're, we're we're, we're we're, we're we're we're, we're, we're, we're, we're we're we're we're we're we're we're all we're, we're we're all we're we're we're all we're, we're all we're we're all we're, we're all we're we're, we're all we're, we're we're all we're we're we're all we're we're all we're we're all we're we're all we're. We're all we're we.

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Mark Sullivan: That surprised me. I didn't know that.

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Tash Uray: Yeah, that that it's that large. Well, in that some of the business that's there, and some of the

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Tash Uray: um effort that um

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Tash Uray: folks will go through to attract.

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Mark Sullivan: You know. That's that's cool. Yeah, intel the second largest investment ever by Intel is in our county.

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Mark Sullivan: Their first largest was in one thousand nine hundred and eighty in Scottsdale, Arizona. So lot of changes coming our way. It'll we'll be. We'll be getting bigger

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Enrollment Resources: all right. I am um growing concerned that we have nobody to let in.

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Tash Uray: Great!

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Tash Uray: How do you, Katie?

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Katie Humphries: Hey?

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Corrina Cornforth: Hello!

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Enrollment Resources: Good morning!

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Tash Uray: Where? Where is everybody? Karina? Where are you?

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Corrina Cornforth: Um. So the the school that I I work with the school, and they're based out of Alberta, Canada. I actually am. Um i'm married to a military member, and so I have been since

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Corrina Cornforth: the heart of the pandemic in two thousand and twenty, working remotely from Vancouver Island in Canada.

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Corrina Cornforth: Really,

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Tash Uray: Karina, do you know where we are? Geographically?

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Corrina Cornforth: Um, Where did you say you guys are? I didn't get to catch that? I joined late.

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Tash Uray: Jodi. Where are we?

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Enrollment Resources: Well, I I will. I'm. I live on Vancouver Island. I happen to be in Washington State at the moment. To be to be honest. But yes, I've been in Victoria for the past thirty years.

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Tash Uray: Yeah, How do you, Jeremy? Long time,

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Hey, Josh, How you doing

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Tash Uray: uh your No, I see a picture of you with still picture. I don't think it's your camera and you frozen. I think it's a picture.

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Enrollment Resources: Attendees cameras um will not actually work only the host and the Co. Co-host. But I have given you permission to talk.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Oh, thank you. Yeah. Not much. To Say looking forward for the insightful, insightful commons. Here

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Tash Uray: it is um one hundred and five. So even though this is really tiny, let's uh, I I think this would be good. So um just uh, in in terms of of introductions. Um,

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Tash Uray: Mark Sullivan, I know Mark for a few years. I don't know how many I know when we first met. But, um! We had a teammate in common that we both, you know we're we're very fortunate to work with um Who? Who's done very well for himself, who maybe we made some leadership mistakes on. But we didn't Scarm,

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Tash Uray: you know. Too bad. So that's pretty cool. And he was somewhat beholden he did take us out to eat. So that was, you know, that was cool. But um, Mark has a really great background in running career schools.

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Tash Uray: It's given him excellent insights. The

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Tash Uray: um, now that he's in the supply chain to career schools and some of what they do, just a really excellent suite of service and product offerings, um, including at Lumen a killer. Crm:

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Tash Uray: You know that they have. So um, Sally, why not to just share just a uh fill in. You know mine is a little bit solved.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah, no, absolutely thanks Tosh. My name is Mark Sullivan. I'm. The President of Science Education Services, and signed as a full service, consulting firm. Um, in the sense that we do three things really. Well, we're regulatory experts. So we have clients in all fifty States. I have clients of four different continents. We deal with State regs. We deal with accreditation. Um. So strong background regulation as Tash mentioned. We have at lumina, which is our Crm platform that schools use to manage lead to enrollment. And then we also do custom, curriculum development for larger organizations who are really

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Mark Sullivan: they look into expand their image with their course offerings. The good news today is that i'm not talking about any of those things with you in regards to science. It's really about leadership, and

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Mark Sullivan: it's funny is, uh how we got to meet with Tosh was I've had uh uh associations and and organizations reach out and say we had a speaker who didn't show up. Can you help us out when I always say,

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Mark Sullivan: you know I have this this presentation that I used to do when I was running schools. So before I joined Cyan, I was a college president for fifteen years

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Mark Sullivan: and a day in my the day that changed my life as what we're going to talk about today with leadership. But the presentation on Budget showed you is something I did for every single Orient new student orientation that I held. Um did it regularly for my staff and new employees when they joined our organization

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Mark Sullivan: and um Florida Association of Florida reach out to me, said we had a a speaker not show up. Can you do something? I said. I got something that's where uh Tosh saw this and said, I want to get this on on camera with you with enrollment resources. And here we are today.

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Tash Uray: So tosh you let me just take it away,

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Tash Uray: Jeremy.

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Mark Sullivan: A lot of that. I'm gonna want it. Your Input: on this. So um, this presentation only works if I get some engagement. So um, i'll ask for some of your examples, some of your experiences to really um make this a a powerful presentation. So um

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Mark Sullivan: I march the thirteenth, two thousand and seven changed my life as a leader, and that was because I was able to go through a leadership presentation.

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Mark Sullivan: It was a three day immersive presentation that really changed who I was from. And we left about this earlier, from being more of a hot head responsive leader to a really thoughtful and inspiring leader, and so

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Mark Sullivan: I condense that three days down into pretty much forty-five minutes, and that's what I want to share with you today. So the first thing is talking about the human operating system, and how we operate as human beings. Um! How to be present

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Mark Sullivan: also how to control your mood, how to build a winning culture within your school, and then also to focus on accountability. So those are the five big things that we're going to talk about today. And, as I said, love to have you jump in. I'll stop, ask questions, get feedback into your thoughts as to your role uh within your organizations and your experiences, but

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Mark Sullivan: you always here, and and this is usually a better presentation in person, because the first thing we always talk about is time versus energy, and you probably hear people saying you've said it. I know I've said it. Wow! I wish I had more time the day to do. X, Y. And Z,

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Mark Sullivan: when in reality we need to focus on What are we doing with our energy? Where are we spending it? Where are we spending our time? Um. And So there are four types of

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Mark Sullivan: high performing energy, and the first one is energy that is high, positive. And so, Katie Karina, Jeremy, you have any examples of what high positive energy looks like

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Mark Sullivan: or tosh

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Tash Uray: what? So so are we talking about stuff like like when you're very passionate about something, and you're, you know really um excited about it. So you know, there's a lot of enthusiasm. You You have a certain cadence and um, you just you have a vibe to you.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, everything's great. Oh, that's great. That's great, you know. Um where everything is just uber positive, even when it shouldn't be right. Um. Okay, even when it Shouldn't: Okay. And what about low Positive?

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Tash Uray: So So when you say high positive, you're talking about like a polyannish view of things, you know, and it it could all be blowing up around you. And you're still, you know,

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Mark Sullivan: ignoring reality. And, uh, you got it, and Katie Jeremy any examples of that that you guys have experienced.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: I have not. I would assume somebody would only have this view when they are.

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Corrina Cornforth: I love that that that I would think um in shock.

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Corrina Cornforth: It's like if you're in shock. You know the whole world is tornado just ripped through, but it's fine. It's fine. That's a great point at that, that in under the influence or shock that's great. What about a low, positive examples of low, positive,

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Mark Sullivan: and And can you explain what low positive is

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Mark Sullivan: laid back right laid back, always just very mellow, but always positive, and always being. Um,

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Mark Sullivan: I think just unexcitable. I don't know if that makes sense.

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Corrina Cornforth: You make it sound like, uh, Matthew Mcconnell. Just like, All right, All right, All right. Yeah, absolutely. I want to say the the due to bites.

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Mark Sullivan: Yup, yup, Exactly. And then what about What about high negative? What about that person that you can tell walking on the street that you're going to get something coming at you negative fully any experiences there.

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Corrina Cornforth: Well, as like a character, I see that's your yours

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Corrina Cornforth: in life.

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Corrina Cornforth: They only seem happy if they're unhappy. That's right.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah.

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Tash Uray: I'm: so good.

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Tash Uray: So I know there are times where I have felt entitled. And so, as an example, maybe there is a position,

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Tash Uray: you know that becomes open, and um, you know I had a crack at it,

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Tash Uray: and somebody else got it,

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Tash Uray: you know, in in, you know, and of course i'm better than they are in my mind, you know. So then, um! That's really colored.

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Tash Uray: You know my perspective in my attitude, and not in a good way, and I just know that in my own experiences with teammates, you know, I've seen that, and there's been times where um we didn't talk about it,

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Tash Uray: and so then things manifested and got up. And then there's been other times where we put the spotlight on it. We unpacked it, and we were able to move on.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah. And high energy of those ones, you could recognize it to say, Okay, we need to do something about this, right? The flip side is the low, positive, and you know those people that are low, positive, which are or low negative. I'm sorry which are the ones that

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Mark Sullivan: on the on the exterior they're positive, but behind the scenes right? The conversation after the conversation, they're very negative, and if you had experience with those types of folks,

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Tash Uray: Well, if you're talking about like even people that sometimes are saboteurs, and maybe they don't even realize it. You know

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Tash Uray: they they they could be uh unconsciously sabotaging, because really on the inside they're feeling stepped over or angry, or left out of a decision, or whatever. And it's really coloring, you know things. But on the outside. You're getting a commercial,

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Mark Sullivan: and which would you rather deal with? We had to choose those four.

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Mark Sullivan: Who which individual would you rather choose to work with, or partner with or lead.

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Corrina Cornforth: Huh! I none.

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Mark Sullivan: There's another option. No, there's no other option. Um! But it's always being sensitive to what those four types of energy are, and one of the things I like to start off meetings with, and this presentation in person start off with, as I say, All right, everybody put. Stand up pushing your chairs, walk around and say good morning to as many people as you can in the next ten seconds. Go, and It's just this big activity of energy, and it gets everybody kind of going to where they're in this good form of

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Mark Sullivan: positive kind of middle positive, I would say on the energy chain. And I know, Josh, you can speak to that experience.

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Tash Uray: Yeah, it was really it was powerful. So we were in the um in the conference room, and

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Tash Uray: um, even people that you know were were flat and were hunched over in their seats, You know, when the meeting started, you know, as soon as when we were done running around the and of course you know, i'm competitive. I had to shake more hands and say hello to more people than anybody. I don't know if I did that, in fact or not, but I certainly tried to. But oh, my God! Even the people that were flat.

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Tash Uray: We're where they were revved up, you know, after we did that that contagious energy was cool.

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Mark Sullivan: Yup. So focusing on energy is a big piece, and then the next step is really focusing on your mood. So the relationship between energy and moods, and how our state of mind in our moods actually determines our effectiveness and our quality of life. We're going to talk about that. And then how our thoughts drive our behaviors, and you always hear people say,

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Mark Sullivan: Why do you act like that right? Why did you do that? Why did you do this? And I would say, what made you think that doing that was the right decision, right? So a lot of times, especially in leadership, we get involved in addressing behaviors right, addressing the why they did something rather than their thoughts behind.

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Mark Sullivan: Why they did it, if that makes sense so really targeting thoughts rather than behaviors, because thoughts dictate behaviors which dictates mood as we're going to talk about coming up next, and then

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Mark Sullivan: we all have separate realities, and so we each see things differently right. So we all have selective perception.

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Mark Sullivan: And so before I join that I'm going to talk about this. So we have selected perception right, which is, we all see the things that we want to see. So i'm going to show you a picture, and what I want you to do is pick out what candy it's going to be a picture of a a puzzle box. But what candy

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Mark Sullivan: our candy stand out to you as soon as you see this picture, so i'll ask for you to jump in with some input

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Mark Sullivan: what jumps out

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Mark Sullivan: you do bees.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: But I would say M. And M, because they're just more visually. Yeah, up the left.

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Corrina Cornforth: Yeah. And the Junior Mince and the nestle crunch.

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Mark Sullivan: Not really. No, okay. A lot of people like last night, you know, Mike and I's why Mike and I's because I love them So You're either drawn by something that's visually stimulating you or something that resonates with you right? And then what people say like Tosh says, Oh, Mr. Goodbye. I'm like. Where is Mr. Good Bar at? I I don't see that because we have selected perception, and

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Mark Sullivan: you know there have been times where

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Mark Sullivan: you know two parties think they're both right, and the the question is, are they both right? Can you be right in both in both cases? So um

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Mark Sullivan: keep in mind. Selective perception is really important. We also have blind spots, right, and what we call remembering the F's.

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Mark Sullivan: We, what we

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Mark Sullivan: what we see is not always accurate. So what I'm going to show you is a paragraph. Okay. Now, generally, this is in a big room up on a big screen, so you can't cheat. So what i'm gonna ask you is

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Mark Sullivan: just sit back in your chair, don't lean forward in point, but i'm going to show you a paragraph. There you have two tasks. I'm going to give you thirty seconds to read the paragraph and think about

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Mark Sullivan: What does it mean to you? Right? What is the paragraph saying? And the second thing I want you to look at is, count how many of the letter F's are in this paragraph? Okay, Now i'm going to give you thirty seconds. Don't. Answer anything until I um. I asked you to answer. So ready set. Go

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Mark Sullivan: all right. Five seconds.

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Mark Sullivan: Okay.

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Mark Sullivan: What did the paragraph say?

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Mark Sullivan: I don't know I was counting. Yeah, So I didn't even what?

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Mark Sullivan: What did the paragraph say?

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Corrina Cornforth: Our customers experience the

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Corrina Cornforth: something effective? This the most effective?

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Corrina Cornforth: Oh, no, I forget success and fear of failure. Yeah. The two biggest fears of a student is of anybody is a fear of failure and the fear of success. Right? And we see that with our students I used to say to students in orientation,

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Mark Sullivan: I promise you, on date, and the first night you go home You're going to want to quit, drop out and move to the next start, because you have, you know, homework, and you have reading, and you have quiz as you have. You have labs, all these things that are going to come up, never going to be there

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Mark Sullivan: thirty days from now or next quarter or next semester. So you're going to feel this way, and everybody does, and everybody thinks they're going to fail,

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Mark Sullivan: and then you get to the end of the program where students are getting right to either graduate or go on externship and they're scared to go out. Can I just stay one more quarter. I do. I have to go on e internship today. Um, So it's really understanding those two psychologies, especially when we deal with our students.

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Tash Uray: Yeah. And a lot of times. There's school experiences, sanctuary, you know, especially if they're winning. They're developing skills. They're passing classes, you know. But other you know other environments of theirs are the same.

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Mark Sullivan: Do you think you know exactly how many of the letter F's there are in that paragraph,

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Mark Sullivan: Katie Karina? Jeremy? Do you know the exact number? You wouldn't even be willing to gamble that you know the right number.

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Mark Sullivan: I will gamble, but i'm I don't feel confident in it. What did you? What did you come up with?

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Seven? Okay, Anybody else? I came up with ten, and I think I was missing some. I I actually lost lost track. They got focused on last sentence. Start thinking about that more.

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Mark Sullivan: I was the same. I kind of skipped counting the F, and was more focused on understanding the meaning behind it.

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Mark Sullivan: Um, I got ten or I got eight. The actual answer is eleven, and so if you look at the screen, the yellow F's. And where most of my folks who get ten, they miss the double F's an effective.

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Mark Sullivan: My folks who get seven always missed the ofs right the because

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Mark Sullivan: that's a V sound not enough sound right? So we start thinking about selective perception and moving too fast. Right? We can miss an F. So, as a leader, I used to step back and think all right. What am I missing here right before I go? Take action with the student or a staff member,

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Mark Sullivan: or you know, um employee vendor, What am I missing? Do I have all the right answers. Have I counted all the asked before I go in and and make a a an action. Does that make sense?

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Yeah.

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Katie Humphries: Hmm.

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Corrina Cornforth: Yup, It does.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: And those offs are very receptive.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah, it is um even, and it's It's funny. It's like even You're like all right, Count the app specifically. Still miss them just because of the sound right. It's Um, it's really a unique phenomenon. So um.

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Mark Sullivan: And then also knowing that we have filters, so i'm going to show you a picture,

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Mark Sullivan: and most people see a couple of different things. So I don't. I would ask, Do you see an old woman or a young woman?

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Corrina Cornforth: If you want an answer, I always see the young woman first, and then I can make myself see the old one.

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Mark Sullivan: It's it's whale, or dolphins, so you can go Search this on the website, but it's picture of dolphins and a hundred percent of of kids see dolphins and one hundred percent of adults see two naked people. It's really a

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah, I I didn't somebody got offend. I'm like, Okay, I'll just tell people to go look at it, because it is, it's pretty interesting. But um, just how how your experiences dictate your perception? Right?

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Mark Sullivan: Um. Next thing is as being present. And so

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Mark Sullivan: what does being present mean? And so

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Mark Sullivan: what I've listed is, there are five different levels of listening

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Mark Sullivan: when it comes to. I've seen listening. One is non-listing, which is people not listening. At all. You also have listening to tell my side of the story or my point of view. Right? You've had these people. You're like, Yeah, I went to, You know I went to Alaska like? Why, I went to Antarctica. Right? This is better. Um! Those folks are just listening to tell their side of the story.

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Mark Sullivan: Some who are just listening to agree or disagree,

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Mark Sullivan: also listening to apply or solve, which is always one of my biggest problems. And then there's truly listening to understand.

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Mark Sullivan: And so a good example I can use from my background was I? I have people come and say, Mr. Sullivan, I need Xyz, and my first Async was go. Well, let's do this. This is this, and they got to the point of like Don't, and I just want you to hear me right. Don't solve the problem.

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Mark Sullivan: Don't, Do any of this Just help me talk this through. So, really understanding the five different levels of listening, and how those you know play role in your everyday life. And so i'd love to hear examples of from the crowd as to

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Mark Sullivan: some examples of where you've made some mistakes, maybe, in these levels of listening

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Tash Uray: well, especially early on in my marriage number I was always a number four with my wife, and drove her nuts, you know, so that one. Um! I was not a five. I was listening to give her a solution, you know, because i'm so wise

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Tash Uray: over nuts, you know. It was that was not healthy.

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Mark Sullivan: At least you were listening, though.

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Tash Uray: Yeah,

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Mark Sullivan: anybody else have examples of levels of listening where they maybe made some mistakes.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: I I do all these every day.

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Mark Sullivan: Yup, and it's one. Express yourself where you want to solve a problem for somebody else, and you probably shouldn't. You should let him them do that, Yup, or what about Somebody walks into your office and says, Hey, let me talk to you like Yup, i'm listening. Why, you're typing away how much one. Oh, and that perceived multitasking right!

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Mark Sullivan: Can you do both at the same time?

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Mhm

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Mark Sullivan: Not very well right. So really understand what we call being present is, Hey, somebody wants your time. Whether and this is where it really help my personal life to your point tosh, which is, instead of multitasking, while my wife or my children are trying to get my attention asked me something very important. I just learned to. All right.

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Tash Uray: I'm going to close the computer, put my phone down. I'm going to give attention. Listen, and then give direction based on what i'm hearing Right? Yes. Might shut the Tv off, make eye contact turn towards. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What What's wrong with listening to solve?

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Mark Sullivan: There's nothing wrong with listening to solve. If that's what the the person who's talking to you desires from you right? And so

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Mark Sullivan: so my staff knows I'm just gonna come in. I'm gonna close the door. I don't want you to do anything. I'm just venting right. I just want you to hear me and some go. Hey? I need your help.

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Mark Sullivan: And I say, okay, tell me what the problem is, Tell me what your solution is, and then let's talk so. When I listen to apply or solve this also with the solution given to me,

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Corrina Cornforth: and I would argue, Mark, that all five of those types of listening they all have their place. There's absolutely times where you should just be not listening, because again, office distractions where you should be focusing with your co-workers that just want to chat because that's what they do um. But but of course you have those situations in in certain meetings where

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Corrina Cornforth: some things are not up for discussion, and it's just time wasting. If we talk and talk in circles like disagree or disagree. Move on. Um. So yeah, I I know we all like the fun uh

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Corrina Cornforth: male and female way of of talking, or you should listen to solve or just shut up. And just listen to me. I don't need you to fix on my problems just here. Um, But yeah, I think all of them have their place

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Mark Sullivan: right? Because, like you said even non-listing, just because somebody says up doesn't mean you have to act on it, or do something or listen to it. Right? That's a great point. That's yeah, Doing your own default, I think is important, too, because I think we all have an actual default that we go to. Yeah, that's a great point.

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Mark Sullivan: And so and then let's talk about your mood. So.

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Mark Sullivan: And we talk about, you know, being here being present now reminders um that it's important that you understand where you are on the mood elevator, and also understanding the impact your mood has on the decisions that you make. So i'm going to show you a screen, and of course you control your mood

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Mark Sullivan: and the power curious. So what i'm showing here on the screen is the mood elevator.

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Mark Sullivan: And so if you take a look at this

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Mark Sullivan: basically in the mood elevator, the best mood you can be in is grateful right? You know that we're like It's just. I'm just so grateful right. And then you go all the way down to the bottom, which is the most negative, which is depressed. Right? So those are the two bookends of the mood Elevator.

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Mark Sullivan: And here's a a statistic that shocked me, which it says,

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Mark Sullivan: if you're in that lower mood, state those red words, you actually lose thirty iq points.

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Mark Sullivan: So I don't know about you all, but I really need those thirty. I key points. We think about all the dumb things you've ever done in your life. It's probably in one of those mood states right?

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Mark Sullivan: And so,

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Mark Sullivan: as a leader, understanding your mood because I've made mistakes. I've made people quit because I've I've made students drop out of school Because, I responded poorly, while I was one of these mood States a student who had a car broken into. I was like, What do you want me to do? Because I was in a bad mood, like nothing, and she dropped out that day,

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Mark Sullivan: and I also had an instructor, one of my best instructors.

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Mark Sullivan: Her name is Michelle Ballet.

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Mark Sullivan: We had a We had a classroom, a a lab that the thermostat broke every day, for like three days in a row, and of course it's Chicago. It's a hundred degrees in July, and

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Mark Sullivan: the third day she came in and tell me it broke. I was firing an employee, and she just busted. I missed some of it,

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Mark Sullivan: and I said, What are you, Michelle? What do you want me to do? And I gave her one of these. I dream of genies um, and it, and it ruined our relationship as it should have. And so um

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Mark Sullivan: really understanding where you are in the mood, elevator, and understanding that the middle. Curious is is really critical to get yourself out of those lower mood states, and this is where people always go. Mark, I can't always be positive. I say, I understand you can't.

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Mark Sullivan: But you have to protect others from you, you know. Close your door, walk away. Why, you're in one of those negative mood states to get to a positive moot state. And so i'd love to hear from the crowd some of your uh dumb mistakes when you're in a lower mood state,

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Tash Uray: you know, for me

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Tash Uray: uh the self righteous one

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Tash Uray: will um come to mind um, especially um in my youth. But it still comes. It still happens, because there are times where um, you know. I think what we were talking about before this meeting. I'm taking the hill i'm taking that hill. I'm. Going to take it.

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Tash Uray: Okay, you're You're either coming with me up that hill or I'm carrying your dead body with me up the hill. But i'm taking it, and so I would run people over because I believe that was right,

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Tash Uray: and I believed my way was the way. Not a way. It was the way

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Mark Sullivan: you know what we still get to be in trouble. Sometimes

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Tash Uray: I can remember um in um when I was a a director of admissions with De Bry in Addison, in, and Michelle Baylish and I, by the way, are tight, and she was my smoking buddy for a while. But that's a whole other story. But when I was there and um, we had a campus present,

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Tash Uray: big, tall, very Abe Lincolnish beard, you know, really awesome campus pressing Great guy,

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Tash Uray: and he was a campus president, and I'm the Do. A. Okay. So. But in the device structure I actually direct line to corporate. I dotted line locally, but I direct line to corporate, so you know, in in um. I was cocky

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Tash Uray: about that, and i'm taking the hill, and I want my starts, and oh, some of these other functional areas are suffering Boole. You know that that now I I mean a word it that way. But I guess my actions. My behavior, My tone often came across that way because we're going to make our starts,

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Tash Uray: you know. Come hell or high water. And you know, if that fries those people over here, or if that I one organization. We grew too fast the whole Icarus thing. We snapped the financial aid food chain. They couldn't keep pace with the volume. You know that throttles full forward blah, you know, so

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Tash Uray: so that self righteousness still can get in my way, and has even, you know, this year I'm: sure there's examples.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah, that's great. Anybody else want to share.

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Katie Humphries: I definitely make a lot of mistakes where, if i'm in high anxiety. My attention to detail is very poor,

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Katie Humphries: and that's when yeah emails go out, eh? E Glasgow to list. They're not supposed to or things like this, and it's yeah usually sort of a self perpetuating problem, because once you do one of those,

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Katie Humphries: the anxiety kind of goes up, and then you just kind of get on a weird treadmill of

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Mark Sullivan: trying to correct. Yeah, Yeah, exactly. Snowballs. Now that's great thanks for sharing. That's that's that's that's critical. And that's Really, this was one of the big pieces the be here now, which we talked about in the mood, elevator or two, that I actually personally helped me at home just as much as it did at work. Right? Um,

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Mark Sullivan: because all of these things are universal between work and and um. So um! And when we start talking about putting these things all together with teamwork. You know there are some examples of what

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Mark Sullivan: what words define teamwork for all of you

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Tash Uray: open, direct, nurturing,

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collaborate.

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Mark Sullivan: So I throw some trust, right respect. And you guys here on this openness, cooperative keeping agreements, right? Accountability, saying, Hey, Yeah, that email went out I was. I shouldn't have sent it out so fast, and mistakes. I'll fix it next time, just like you did right. So putting the pieces of all these together as you start thinking about being here now,

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Mark Sullivan: mood, elevator, and ultimately, when we start talking about accountability,

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Mark Sullivan: you start talking about a win winning team. You also have to talk about some things that help you mentally

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Mark Sullivan: survive, and I hate to say, survive. But that's true, which is the first one is.

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Mark Sullivan: You know what's gravity? You know gravity are the things that you can't control, and how much time do we spend on things we can't control. Right so once understanding gravity to always assuming innocence. Right things are not always as they appear, and we to go back to those, remember the Fs. But

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Mark Sullivan: I always tell the story about um,

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Mark Sullivan: and it's kind of an antiquated story. But standing in line at a bank on a Friday to cash your paycheck right long line. On Friday you're standing there. In comes a guy, and Barges is away white right to the front of the line,

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Mark Sullivan: and you feel. How how do you feel when you see that happen?

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Jeremy Oberfeld: David

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Mark Sullivan: irritated. What else?

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Mark Sullivan: Angry, mad, right?

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Mark Sullivan: And now how do you feel

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Jeremy Oberfeld: like a Dick? Now that's a good one now? No, But then the process. No, he's not blind. He does this all the time

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Mark Sullivan: right? So you see how your emotions on situations can change in an instance. So one of the things that I've always taken the heart is assuming innocence right,

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Mark Sullivan: and I always think about um.

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Mark Sullivan: You know you're driving down the highway, and somebody almost cuts you off to an eighty-five miles per hour, Right? And then what happens now? You're angry? You're in this lower mood. State. And now you're in a high speed chase.

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Mark Sullivan: Why are you doing that like? Well, they must be crazy, and i'm like, Well, if they're crazy, why Are you chasing them? Right? Um. But on the flip side I've also been in the spot where I get over, and I look at my rear for your mirror, and I didn't realize the car was right there, and you get those jelly legs like I almost died, and the person behind you is angry right you So

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Mark Sullivan: uh, the one of the biggest benefits out of this training that I took away was just assuming, in a sense, giving people the benefit of the doubt.

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Mark Sullivan: Most people aren't doing things to, you know, aggravate or make you angry because they can't think about anything besides themselves. If that makes sense

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Mark Sullivan: questions on our thoughts, on assuming innocence.

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Tash Uray: I think that's it. That's a a great um perspective. Yeah, Because it's. I know a lot of times. I think I know there. Why,

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Mark Sullivan: yeah, that's a great point. I never assume maliciousness. That's great.

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Mark Sullivan: Um! And then how you think is how you ask right? So if you come at somebody with an angry voice. You're going to get anger response. You come, somebody! With a helpful voice. You're going to get a helpful response. So keep those things in mind. And then, really, when we start talking about the the final piece that brings all together as accountability. And so i'm going to show you the accountability, ladder,

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Mark Sullivan: and understanding that you know accountability. Most people like Oh, somebody's in trouble or who did this when in reality accountability is about self

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Mark Sullivan: self-awareness and personal choice, and it's not about blames about the state of mind, and that

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Mark Sullivan: you know the quality, of our thought, understanding, gravity

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Mark Sullivan: in the power of accountability are critical. So here's the accountability ladder,

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Mark Sullivan: and all of these things can be found in the public arena online as well.

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Mark Sullivan: But you have the accountability ladder, which is separated into two different pieces, which is powerful and powerless. Right? So when you think about powerless, you think about the folks that don't even. They're not even where they have a problem.

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Mark Sullivan: Um, or they start blaming others, not. My phone. Jake's Fall. Um making excuses. Yeah. Well, I was up late last night, you know, at a birthday party um, or just waiting and hoping that it changes right all powerless states of mind rather than powerful,

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Mark Sullivan: which is a acknowledging reality, owning the issue, owning the reality, finding solutions and getting on with it right, so really keeping our focus as individuals and leaders in the powerful uh stage of the accountability ladder, and also doing the same for our folks. So um thoughts on the accountability ladder,

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Corrina Cornforth: I think accountability is, is one of the first things that needs to be there to breed respect,

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Corrina Cornforth: and once I

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Corrina Cornforth: I know for myself, Um,

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Corrina Cornforth: once I discovered

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Corrina Cornforth: you feel powerful when you're accountable when when you take ownership of of the States or something going sideways. And

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Corrina Cornforth: yeah, it's not something to be feared to admit that Oops. I messed up there anything it it reads more respect and and more support, for from your team as you move forward

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Mark Sullivan: anybody else,

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Tash Uray: you know the older I get, the more I find that I value accountability partners, and you know, and professionally that can be simple. So I have a teammate of mine, um bell, and she actually lives in the Philippines,

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Tash Uray: and she owns my calendar, and she schedules things for me in time. Thank you. God, What else she does that I really get a lot of value out of is There's certain things that I know, I find,

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Tash Uray: and I know i'm going to procrastinate on him, and so I just put them all on her plate. Not that she can do them, but she can stand on me to get them done, so that's a simple accountability. Then I also have um a a group of men

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Tash Uray: that um have also made lots of mistakes in their life just like I have, and we we ask very hard questions of one another, and we give very candid feedback to one another. And um,

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Tash Uray: it really helps me, especially with my blind spots. You know that that that I don't see, and I just. I. I have gratitude for having men that hope could pry and help me be a better me,

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Tash Uray: you know, and that's cool. So so you could do it simply and professionally, and you could do it

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Tash Uray: outside of that as well,

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Mark Sullivan: understanding right, and my my philosophy as a school present was, I need to get out of my office right? I need to go and make it a point to be out and about and face the challenges head on face. If student complaint out complaining great, i'll go hit it right now, because if they don't get to me. They're going to get to somebody else a really

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Mark Sullivan: owning that accountability of

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Mark Sullivan: the kind of the wait and the hope is right. Right. Instead of waiting for things to get better. Just go make it better,

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Jeremy Oberfeld: if I may ask. So I understand how it relate to a leader, because she kind of

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Jeremy Oberfeld: take on and take on accountability for everything. Now, in some instances, what with the direct reports, or also directors, if you Vp. Or whatever they may be your managers.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Um. If it's clear that it's their sphere responsibilities, it should be acting powerfully and take on accountability. But what if it's not that? Clear. What if you know there should be taken accountability, But they're saying that it's not theirs, and they want to act powers.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: I mean, how do you determine, because in certain cases yeah, you may not be aware, because it's not yours, or you blame others because it's stairs. But I mean you don't blame, but you don't maybe you don't communicate that. But you hold others, you know, responsible right? So I mean, how do you determine? You know, like what to push on to the leaders to make sure they act powerful versus not

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right.

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Mark Sullivan: I think the one big thing in that which I try not to do, which is a lot of times. People are in the powerless because of the response of the person they're going to go deliver the news to

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Mark Sullivan: right.

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Mark Sullivan: If I know an admissions. Take admissions if I know I if I as a rep. No, i'm going to miss my start,

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Mark Sullivan: and it's, or I think i'm going to miss my start instead of acknowledged it today. Which is, hey? I'm starting to fall behind. What can we do? Can training? I'll wait and apologize once when I miss a start, but I know what's going to happen. My boss is going to scream me whatever, and so

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Mark Sullivan: I think it's getting folks to own. I think the answer is that own it piece which is acknowledged on it, and then come to me for solutions, or find somebody with the solution

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Mark Sullivan: and not, and not

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Mark Sullivan: reprimand somebody for bringing you an issue that they need your help solving.

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Mark Sullivan: Does that make sense?

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Corrina Cornforth: Yeah, I can. I can see that you have to have that to to go back to that. If you have winning culture,

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Corrina Cornforth: then you like you have that safe space. You have that true team environment, then, absolutely. But I can absolutely respect that that question. What do you do when clearly that dynamics not there?

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Mark Sullivan: Are you like we're talking about today. I just want you to see this. Um, because I think in the back of our mind most of us know if there's an issue

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Mark Sullivan: where most of us are usually between that acknowledged reality and wait and hope right, which is, I know it's a problem. Maybe it'll hopefully I get better versus going. I know It's a promise. Go get it better, right? So I think the first start in a culture that doesn't kind of exist in this realm would be to share this

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Tash Uray: what? And you know, and I think there's going to be times where the season that your team is in and your organization is in has more uncertainty to it.

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Tash Uray: So there might be times where there's blurred boundaries, and there's you know the role. Roles might be shifting or changing,

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and

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Tash Uray: you know what what I've observed and what's helped me is if I have standing calendars

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Tash Uray: in place, and and I have communication touch points that involve.

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Tash Uray: You know, different stakeholders. So let's just say maybe maybe um in the in the school. Maybe it's what's start rates suffering, and do I have a good standing meeting where I have financial aid and admissions. Representation room, Maybe even the program director of the particular program that that's got, You know the the not enough students.

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Tash Uray: Um it it some of those standing types of things. If they're in place,

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Tash Uray: then sometimes the who should be accountable um gets crystallized, it becomes more obvious over time. And then you know, the classic finger pointing admissions, points of financial aid financially. Points at admissions, marketing and admissions. Point of one lousy leads versus you're not working by. There's there's built intentions, you know. We within our campuses and if you're multi-site. Sometimes there's the whole corporate versus campus

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Tash Uray: you know ball going on as well. So there's a lot of times where the

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Tash Uray: the tensions built in, and if you're in a state of flux, maybe the accountability initially isn't obvious. But over time it becomes that way

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Mark Sullivan: that I to hold myself accountable and to help my my teammate. So whether it's my direct report. It's my vendors to my side or my boss. There's one question I always ask is,

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Mark Sullivan: What do you need from me?

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Mark Sullivan: What do you need for me. What can I? What can I do to help you be successful? Because when you ask those questions and they're maybe they're in this flux of wait and all we're acknowledged really well, you know, i'm really having this this hard time with the student or this um this client, and it can really just open up so that

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Mark Sullivan: they know they can come to you, and I ask it almost every meeting i'm in. What do you need for me? What do you need from me, and that really has helped um close that gap for me.

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Mark Sullivan: So to wrap up. I know It's it's been going along. So your influence again. This really changed my life, not only at work, but at home within your department, within your team, within your campus. Um, being aware of your shadow. Knowing some of these weaknesses that we have internally, just as human beings managing that shadow and then influencing

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Mark Sullivan: the shadow of others. And that's really the other focus. I it is. I always try to put my energy on other people versus the opposite Right? Someone's feeling down my jobs to get them up,

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Mark Sullivan: and if i'm feeling down, i'm! I go find something to get me up. If that makes sense, so

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Mark Sullivan: questions or answers,

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Tash Uray: I got a question so. Um

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Tash Uray: what? What? Um what happens when um you know there's I know. Maybe there's a growth mandate, or you know, maybe there's a new program or a new location, or just something's going on. And so there's uncertainty in the air. And so the the the

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Tash Uray: the team and your performers aren't feeling

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Tash Uray: as secure, and they're not. They're familiar, is getting messed with, you know. And so, though they're they're moving down the ladder. You know those in in. That's what are some of the things you can do as a leader

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Tash Uray: that might help get them to move back up the ladder, and and i'm i'm even talking almost like the whole climate of the team.

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Mark Sullivan: Um, I I look for the um. The folks who join into my thing is transparency, right? And why the why behind the why right? So i'm always sensitive to

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Mark Sullivan: hey? We have new growth goals. Why, people are going to ask why? And then, as soon as you deliver them behind the scenes. They're going to go and have the the second conversation right? So I think it's about being as transparent as possible, sharing the why and then showing the support to your folks, and then I looked uh anybody else in the in the audience can share their thoughts.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Well, I mean the Why, it'd be different from different constituencies. You know the owners. Why, it's very different from managers who are just an administrator, you know, and they may not like each other's wives.

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Mark Sullivan: Yeah. But in the you're one hundred percent right, and it's it's about understanding the why, right liking it or not, It's that's the tough part, right? And now, how do you overcome that? Yeah, It sounds like you have experience with that?

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Well, I'm: very growth oriented. Um: yeah.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: But we do have investors in certain expectations, but at the same time it has kind of like

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Jeremy Oberfeld: additional benefits to the community and employers, and that's the angle. You know that I'm taking to to generate

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Brian.

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Yeah,

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Mark Sullivan: Mhm yeah, makes sense.

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Tash Uray: Yeah. And And you know it's, I think, just sometimes in the realities of things, you know you intellectually, you understand Transparency.

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Tash Uray: Um, maybe you've got that wisdom already, and you've got lots of experience with transparency. But in the moment and in the situation, you know there's just a lot going on,

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Tash Uray: and it's just you just didn't communicate something, and then somebody finds out, or you know, and you know those kinds of things are tough. And um,

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Tash Uray: when there's heightened concern, because maybe there's been some turnover, some change, or whatever is going on that that makes it even harder, you know, and and and sometimes

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Tash Uray: you know the the the team

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Tash Uray: um climate five isn't very grace, giving,

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Mark Sullivan: you know, and that assume innocence. You know that you were talking about earlier. It's not being assumed. In fact, if anything, it's assumed guilt,

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Mark Sullivan: I always try to say if there's a problem. I want someone to come. Tell me about it right as a leader. You can't go Figure out all the problems you just have to have people that will come. Tell you when there's something that's going to be earth, or you know, or shattering, or difficult. And to your pointosh transparency doesn't mean telling everybody, everything it means, hey? Here's why we're doing it. Here are the goals. Here's how it's going to benefit you as an individual, the student as an individual, the community and the company.

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Tash Uray: Yeah, you know, I would be curious as to what anybody's done when it comes to sideways, conversations instead of direct conversations. And when people are buzzing one another and they're trying to figure it out, instead of

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Tash Uray: being open and direct with whether it's a leader, they have an individual with another teammate. They have an individual with whatever the issue is, but instead, you know they're

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Mark Sullivan: so. There's There's one book I read called the First ninety days which talks about democracy, you know, democratic decision making and team decision making, and no one when to use those right knowing when leader makes a decision. Here's what it is. And here's why versus um. The authoritative versus the democratic saying, All right, What? Everybody's input

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Mark Sullivan: great ideas. Here's how we're going to move forward. So there's a couple of different ways to to manage that sideway stuff

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Mark Sullivan: any other thoughts from the group.

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Mark Sullivan: Awesome. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your input. It's so great to meet you and talk to you all on this afternoon, and

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Mark Sullivan: i'm sure tosh will send out my my contact information. If you have any questions or want to continue the conversation about leadership, I like to. I see a question. I want to know. What How did you get the nickname Sully? I'm. I'm the big blue and purple furry monster, don't, you know it's my last name.

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Mark Sullivan: I grew up, being called so I had French for four years, didn't know my first name,

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Mark Sullivan: and then what one more time would you share? What's in it? It's most famous for Zion? It does three things really Well, we're regulatory experts. So we have clients in all fifty States that we help schools with licensure Um

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Mark Sullivan: and Dc. And we'll help with accreditation. So we have deal with ten different creditors right now. Have clients on four different continents. So um primarily post secondary uh private post secondary schools

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Mark Sullivan: we have Ed Lumina, which is our uh admissions. Platform to manage leads to enrollment, so the goal is to get leads to enrollment as quickly as effectively as possible, and then three, we do custom, curriculum development.

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Thank you.

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Mark Sullivan: So is that okay? If I ask for clarification, what do you mean by accreditation, support, and what? What? Exactly right. So we deal with clients who come to us. Say, All right, we've been operating, and now we want to apply for accreditation with Deac, or middle States or Acsc. And then I also have clients who are come up for a renewal

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Mark Sullivan: that say, you know we've looked at the renewal. We're trying to re rewrite our Sdr. We know we can't do it on our own. Can you help us out through the reaccreditation process? So my team will come in and provide support for those schools to get through that process successfully,

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Jeremy Oberfeld: and you have expertise in every regulatory body and that cross every side.

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Mark Sullivan: So we have clients in all fifty States. And what's unique about the Us. Is that some States have multiple Some States have three Oklahoma, three different um regulatory bodies. So it's deciding where you fall under and helping folks stay compliant in those States, and then um right now we're dealing with currently ten different accreditors.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Thank you.

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Great question.

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Jeremy Oberfeld: Thank you very much.

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Mark Sullivan: I think this is a wrap. Folks, Thank you that we sound very intimate. Appreciate that. Yeah, Thank you. Everybody have a great Russia. Thank you so much, Sally. Take care, bye, bye, bye,